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  1. phpBB3
  2. PHPBB3-9547

Changing forum type applies FORUM_FLAG_ACTIVE_TOPICS to new forum type.

    Details

    • Type: Bug
    • Status: Unverified Fix
    • Priority: Minor
    • Resolution: Fixed
    • Affects Version/s: 3.0.7-PL1
    • Fix Version/s: 3.0.8-RC1
    • Component/s: ACP
    • Labels:
      None

      Description

      When changing a forum that has the forum_flag FORUM_FLAG_ACTIVE_TOPICS set (or not set) from 'category' to 'forum' or vice versa the flag is applied to the new forum type.

      The default configuration when creating a new forum however is:
      New 'forum': FORUM_FLAG_ACTIVE_TOPICS is set ("Display active topics: Yes")
      New 'category': FORUM_FLAG_ACTIVE_TOPICS is not set ("Enable active topics: No")

      Background: FORUM_FLAG_ACTIVE_TOPICS is used by categories and forums, but in different ways.

        Activity

        Hide
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment -

        Couple of issues I have with this, ok maybe more than a couple.

        1. I am not sure this is a bug because I do not believe anything is broken.

        2. If I have already created a forum or category and chosen my settings for it and at some point in the future, decide to change the forum type: from either:

        forum -> category
        category -> forum

        I would expect the previously selected settings to transfer accordingly. I definitely would not want the software to reset/undo a setting I had chosen without me explicitly asking it to do so, which is what you seem to be proposing.

        3. The default settings at forum creation have no bearing on what the values should be during later editing of existing forums. You are changing the settings of existing forum(s) not creating new ones.

        4. In my default 3.0.7-PL1 when creating a new forum the default setting for both forum type and category type has Active topics enabled by default.
        New 'Forum' = Display active topics: Yes
        New 'Category' = Enable active topics: Yes

        Show
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment - Couple of issues I have with this, ok maybe more than a couple. 1. I am not sure this is a bug because I do not believe anything is broken. 2. If I have already created a forum or category and chosen my settings for it and at some point in the future, decide to change the forum type: from either: forum -> category category -> forum I would expect the previously selected settings to transfer accordingly. I definitely would not want the software to reset/undo a setting I had chosen without me explicitly asking it to do so, which is what you seem to be proposing. 3. The default settings at forum creation have no bearing on what the values should be during later editing of existing forums. You are changing the settings of existing forum(s) not creating new ones. 4. In my default 3.0.7-PL1 when creating a new forum the default setting for both forum type and category type has Active topics enabled by default. New 'Forum' = Display active topics: Yes New 'Category' = Enable active topics: Yes
        Hide
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment -

        1. / 2.
        The "Display active topics" setting for forums has no relation to "Enable active topics" for categories at all. It's just the same bitfield and flag that's being used.

        3.
        Off course it has. When changing the forum type from category to forum one obviously wants to have the default options for the forum-only settings. Because you're adding a new forum by changing the type from category to forum.

        4.
        You're right.
        http://code.phpbb.com/repositories/revision/phpbb/10169 was supposed to enable "Display active topics" for new forums, but because the same field is used it also enabled "Enable active topics" for categories.

        Show
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment - 1. / 2. The "Display active topics" setting for forums has no relation to "Enable active topics" for categories at all. It's just the same bitfield and flag that's being used. 3. Off course it has. When changing the forum type from category to forum one obviously wants to have the default options for the forum-only settings. Because you're adding a new forum by changing the type from category to forum. 4. You're right. http://code.phpbb.com/repositories/revision/phpbb/10169 was supposed to enable "Display active topics" for new forums, but because the same field is used it also enabled "Enable active topics" for categories.
        Hide
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment -

        1./2. I do not understand your reply there, it does not seem to address my comments.

        3. Creating a new forum and editing an existing forum are two completely separate actions. Editing an existing forum setting for any reason (by changing any setting) should not undo any other previously chosen settings. If I have created a forum that was set to type = forum and deliberately turned 'Active topics' off for that forum, I certainly don't want to have to do it again just because I am changing the layout of my board and decided to change that forum type to 'category'. Remember there are no categories in phpBB3, just forums so a category is nothing more than a forum setting in itself. By changing that flag you are not creating a new forum you are editing one.

        Create new forum -> type = Forum
        Create new forum -> type = Category

        4. It makes complete sense for the default to be the same for each, either both on or both off.

        Addendum: The default values for any field should only be applied by the software at the time of creation or explicitly by admin request, such as a 'reset to defaults' button which currently does not exist.

        Show
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment - 1./2. I do not understand your reply there, it does not seem to address my comments. 3. Creating a new forum and editing an existing forum are two completely separate actions. Editing an existing forum setting for any reason (by changing any setting) should not undo any other previously chosen settings. If I have created a forum that was set to type = forum and deliberately turned 'Active topics' off for that forum, I certainly don't want to have to do it again just because I am changing the layout of my board and decided to change that forum type to 'category'. Remember there are no categories in phpBB3, just forums so a category is nothing more than a forum setting in itself. By changing that flag you are not creating a new forum you are editing one. Create new forum -> type = Forum Create new forum -> type = Category 4. It makes complete sense for the default to be the same for each, either both on or both off. Addendum: The default values for any field should only be applied by the software at the time of creation or explicitly by admin request, such as a 'reset to defaults' button which currently does not exist.
        Hide
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment -

        Yeah, you seem to misunderstand the difference between "Display active topics" and "Enable active topics" or you do not understand it at all.

        Since the flag can be used by a forum forum and a category forum, it is obvious that we cannot store both settings, for the forum forum and the category forum at the same time. Therefore, when switching the forum type, defaults have to be applied. Currently the setting is taken from the old forum type and put into the new forum type context.

        4.
        No it does not, because both settings are not even related to each other (wrong context). We can therefore define the default behaviour for each setting differently.

        Show
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment - Yeah, you seem to misunderstand the difference between "Display active topics" and "Enable active topics" or you do not understand it at all. Since the flag can be used by a forum forum and a category forum, it is obvious that we cannot store both settings, for the forum forum and the category forum at the same time. Therefore, when switching the forum type, defaults have to be applied. Currently the setting is taken from the old forum type and put into the new forum type context. 4. No it does not, because both settings are not even related to each other (wrong context). We can therefore define the default behaviour for each setting differently.
        Hide
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment -

        There are two separate issues here, perhaps that is what is creating the confusion.

        First issue:

        What the default settings during forum creation are for;

        Enable active topics:
        If set to yes active topics in selected subforums will be displayed under this category.

        and

        Display active topics:
        If set to yes topics made to this forum will be shown in the active topics list.

        And whether the two should have the same default setting or different default settings. In my world, the entire reason you choose a default feature setting for users is because you have reason to believe that default is the most desired setting by the majority of your potential user base, thus you preselect it for them. Do you agree with that premise? If so, good because here is where it gets complicated... the settings are related to each other. They are related to each other because you provide two different "views" of what you define as 'Active topics list' and you do not provide any differentiation between them (to the user) regardless of the UI path taken to view them.

        From the users perspective the 'Active topics' list can be displayed via a search:
        http://../search.php?search_id=active_topics
        or viewed from http://.../viewforum.php?f=1 <-where f(1) is a category forum.

        From the users perspective the phrase 'Active topics list' can mean either of those two results, or both. The evidence of that exists in another bug ticket where you yourself referred to 'Active topics list' as (viewforum f=$category_forum_id) -> http://www.phpbb.com/bugs/phpbb3/57255#post223845

        It is when you define 'Active topics list' as the viewforum page that the relationship between the two settings come into play. Active topics must be enabled for both the category forum and the content forum in order for the 'Active topics list' to display. When Meik changed the default setting for new forum creation he improved the usability of the application, you see very few support issues any more where the user is asking why they don't have an 'Active topics list' when they have 'Display active topics:' set to Yes. That is because both forum types are set the same and you no longer have to go in and change it for category type forums.

        Show
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment - There are two separate issues here, perhaps that is what is creating the confusion. First issue: What the default settings during forum creation are for; Enable active topics: If set to yes active topics in selected subforums will be displayed under this category. and Display active topics: If set to yes topics made to this forum will be shown in the active topics list. And whether the two should have the same default setting or different default settings. In my world, the entire reason you choose a default feature setting for users is because you have reason to believe that default is the most desired setting by the majority of your potential user base, thus you preselect it for them. Do you agree with that premise? If so, good because here is where it gets complicated... the settings are related to each other. They are related to each other because you provide two different "views" of what you define as 'Active topics list' and you do not provide any differentiation between them (to the user) regardless of the UI path taken to view them. From the users perspective the 'Active topics' list can be displayed via a search: http://../search.php?search_id=active_topics or viewed from http://.../viewforum.php?f=1 <-where f(1) is a category forum. From the users perspective the phrase 'Active topics list' can mean either of those two results, or both. The evidence of that exists in another bug ticket where you yourself referred to 'Active topics list' as (viewforum f=$category_forum_id) -> http://www.phpbb.com/bugs/phpbb3/57255#post223845 It is when you define 'Active topics list' as the viewforum page that the relationship between the two settings come into play. Active topics must be enabled for both the category forum and the content forum in order for the 'Active topics list' to display. When Meik changed the default setting for new forum creation he improved the usability of the application, you see very few support issues any more where the user is asking why they don't have an 'Active topics list' when they have 'Display active topics:' set to Yes. That is because both forum types are set the same and you no longer have to go in and change it for category type forums.
        Hide
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment -

        It is when you define 'Active topics list' as the viewforum page that the relationship between the two settings come into play. Active topics must be enabled for both the category forum and the content forum in order for the 'Active topics list' to display. When Meik changed the default setting for new forum creation he improved the usability of the application, you see very few support issues any more where the user is asking why they don't have an 'Active topics list' when they have 'Display active topics:' set to Yes. That is because both forum types are set the same and you no longer have to go in and change it for category type forums.

        This is not an issue, because the forum forum default is 'Yes'. It's just the category forum default that's 'No' now.

        Show
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment - It is when you define 'Active topics list' as the viewforum page that the relationship between the two settings come into play. Active topics must be enabled for both the category forum and the content forum in order for the 'Active topics list' to display. When Meik changed the default setting for new forum creation he improved the usability of the application, you see very few support issues any more where the user is asking why they don't have an 'Active topics list' when they have 'Display active topics:' set to Yes. That is because both forum types are set the same and you no longer have to go in and change it for category type forums. This is not an issue, because the forum forum default is 'Yes'. It's just the category forum default that's 'No' now.
        Hide
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment -

        I'm also pretty sure Meik did not intend to change the category forum setting to 'Yes' in http://code.phpbb.com/repositories/revision/phpbb/10169, because I actually suggested that change.

        Show
        bantu Andreas Fischer added a comment - I'm also pretty sure Meik did not intend to change the category forum setting to 'Yes' in http://code.phpbb.com/repositories/revision/phpbb/10169 , because I actually suggested that change.
        Hide
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment - - edited

        I think you are confusing default settings via the create forum function with the sample category & forum that you pre-install with a new board, Your first category & Your first forum. Those phpBB configured forums do not reflect default board settings but are merely one example of how you could configure additional forums. Up until Meik added r10169 the default value for both Enable active topics: & Display active topics: when creating a new forum via ACP -> Manage forums -> Create new forum was No, from 3.0 Gold through 3.0.5. From 3.0.6 on the default value is Yes. When creating a new forum those values have always matched. About the only thing I can think of that could be improved in the existing design is change the 'Enable active topics:' language string to 'Display active topics:' so the field description is accurate and consistent throughout the UI. There is no Enable, there is only Display, yes or no. Active topics exist or not based on posting activity, they are not something to be enabled like QR, attachments, etc. Therefore 'Display active topics' is the more accurate description for the field.

        Show
        narqelion narqelion [X] (Inactive) added a comment - - edited I think you are confusing default settings via the create forum function with the sample category & forum that you pre-install with a new board, Your first category & Your first forum . Those phpBB configured forums do not reflect default board settings but are merely one example of how you could configure additional forums. Up until Meik added r10169 the default value for both Enable active topics: & Display active topics: when creating a new forum via ACP -> Manage forums -> Create new forum was No , from 3.0 Gold through 3.0.5. From 3.0.6 on the default value is Yes. When creating a new forum those values have always matched. About the only thing I can think of that could be improved in the existing design is change the 'Enable active topics:' language string to 'Display active topics:' so the field description is accurate and consistent throughout the UI. There is no Enable, there is only Display, yes or no. Active topics exist or not based on posting activity, they are not something to be enabled like QR, attachments, etc. Therefore 'Display active topics' is the more accurate description for the field.

          People

          • Assignee:
            bantu Andreas Fischer
            Reporter:
            bantu Andreas Fischer
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            Dates

            • Created:
              Updated:
              Resolved:

              Development